by I think it’s time that we start fighting back against all this nonsense that a person is “gay”. We need to continually bring up the fact that it is an action, not something your born with. It is a choice. That leads to the statement that no one is “gay”. All men are created the same and all women the same. They make choices.
If a person makes a choice to be a serial killer we don’t bestow rights on them as if they are not. If a person steals for a living, that doesn’t mean they deserve more rights. Homosexuality is not “who I am” but it’s “what I choose to do”.
In essence, we’re all born with the ability to commit any sin, and it is by the grace of God that we do not do certain sins, but let’s not let this sham of an argument about “identity” cloud the clear truth here.
Let’s also fight back against this tide of people that claim that people can not stop being gay, or that it’s wrong to try to get people to do right. Since it is a choice, they can choose to live right lives, and find them much more fulfilling.
Take a stand against the tide, and don’t let a discussion about homosexuality go by without making sure people know it’s a choice, not something you’re born with.
Right on. One of the things I get so fed up with on tv is how reality shows air all the dirty laundry. Why do they feel it’s necessary to make sure we know what a person’s sexual orientation is? Yeah, they want to desensitize us to it, but really…since when do we consider this something worthy of touting on tv? I know it’s all part of their agenda…so we’ll have to allow them “rights”…but what a basis on which to demand rights?!
I have a friend whose brother is an open homosexual. What grief that has brought to their family. It’s not always a case of love the sinner, hate the sin. When someone is overtly bringing their SO to your family gatherings, you have to draw the line and cut things off.
Have to add, I’ve never been in this situation, so I can’t imagine how hard that would be to do.
I’m not sure I agree with you here. There are biological factors and some complicated psychological factors that effectively can remove one’s choice of sexual orientation. Indeed, I doubt anyone really chooses a sexual orientation. For instance it has been shown that if a mother has a succession of sons, the fourth or fifth son will be significantly more likely to have a homosexual orientation. The theory is that there is a biological factor from increased testosterone in the womb during pregnancy.
Now we know that an increased statsitical likelihood is nothing like a certainty. That, in fact, the majority of fourth or fifth sons will not be gay. But the propensity is there, and it is biological.
And then there are psychological factors, which are – I think – much deeper and hard to resolve than most of us imagine. But these factors can affect our sexuality in ways that can be hard to unravel.
Now I think that it is possible that one day we will have sufficient knowledge to unravel these factors and cure people of a homosexual orientation. I also think that people who attempt to normalise homosexual relationships are well intentioned people trying to help people of such orientations. I also think they are wrong. That it is clear both biblically and from an examination of the facts of the relationships. But I understand why these people try to do what they try to do. If and when we can treat the cause of the problem, a more dispassionate view will indicate that such an orientation is not something we would wish on anyone.
But the one thing the Bible is clear on is that sexual relations are for marriage. Thus it is quite possible that a Christian can have a homosexual orientation, but a practising homosexual who claims to be a Christian is no different from a Christian practicing an extra marital relationship.
Mary, You’re right. There’s no reason that reality shows need to promote a gay lifestyle, or advertise what people are doing at home between the sheets. I mean, I used to watch the Amazing Race on CBS– and not only did they do the whole “married” for the gay couple that was not married, but they had something like 12 year virgin dating. I mean, come on.
We also had someone in our family bring their partner to our family’s holiday parties. It was awkward. To the younger ones, she was called “so-and-so’s friend”, but you could tell there was something different.
Stephen, certainly it’s the activity that is definitely a sin. I don’t argue with the idea that there are factors that lead to someone making the wrong choices, but I’m not sold on the whole concept that someone is born gay– predisposed, factors that can contribute, they may be present. I think we’re doing people more harm than good by saying that it’s something acceptable, though.
I am not trying to make a case for saying that someone is born gay. I agree that this is almost certainly incorrect. But I don’t think there are concious choices we make in our sexuality either. The reason people *think* they are born gay, is because they are not aware of any choices they have made that have made themselves gay.
The same could be said of other sexual tendencies too. For instance, I doubt a paedophile has made a conscious choice to be a paedophile and so on.
But the difference is that whilst society will say that a paedophile is suffering from some kind of neurosis, they try to say that being gay is fine. I agree that we do more harm than good in suggesting homosexual practice is acceptable, and clearly God calls it sin. But we also cannot suggest it is a simple matter of a lifestyle choice.
I totally agree with the way you just presented it, Stephen. It’s less a single choice than a series of choices, decisions and influences. It is probably a case of oversimplification to imply that it’s a single choice.
But I don’t think it’s an oversimplification to state that homosexuality is a sin. Stephen states that it may be more biological than we want to believe, but honestly, God created that 4th or 5th man-child and testosterone levels aside, we are all born with a sin nature, curable only when we believe in Christ as our Savior. The struggles will be there and we may still need counseling for various sins that we bring into our new relationship…but you can almost overanalyze the whole homosexual thing till it seems okay. And it’s not.
And I wanted to clarify that in my flippant statement about “love the sinner hate the sin”, I didn’t mean by cutting things off that you cease to love the person, but especially when children are taking these things in, we can’t appear to condone the behavior by accepting it as normal.
You’re right, Mary. It’s a clear cut sin– no doubt about it. I think I oversimplified by lumping things into “one choice” when it clearly is not.
As far as the sinner/sin thing– it’s hard when people identify themselves as a sinner and wear it as a badge to separate it out. I’d probably handle the situation like you suggested if it were to happen in my family.