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Have you ever stopped to think about how differently we look at things in the age of science than they did in Bible times? I often muse on the whole concept of relying on God totally, and, in doing so, think about all that we think we understand today and what it has done to our faith.
Global Warming
In the Old Testament, God used droughts to bring people to Him. He used Joseph and a drought to bring His people down to Egypt. He used Elijah and a draught to rid his land of the prophets of Baal and to show His strength.
The point was that God used weather, and His control over it, to bring people’s attention to their sin.
Today, we look at the weather and we forecast what will happen. We explain rain as disturbances or low pressure. We talk about warm oceans. We talk about global warming.
The funniest thing to me about that last one is that we keep getting ourselves worked up over this problem and what we’ve done and yet at the same time we say that there’s nothing that we can do to stop it. Yet it doesn’t occur to many to actually look to the God of Heaven in prayer.
Maybe there is such a thing as man-made global warming, but I would tend to think that nothing’s outside of God’s control and He could certainly stop it. But who is out there encouraging people to make petition to the One that’s in control– to get our hearts right, to ask for a cooling?
Great insight! Thank you for the reminder!
I don’t think this is “global warning” it is a “God warning.”
It is not mere coincidence that there are fires, droughts, hurricanes, famine, etc. God has to get our attention and since this country keeps falling deeper and deeper into a moral decay or decline, He has to do something to shake us up a bit.
He’s got my attention.
You neglected to mention that these forecasts and explanations come about as a result of careful observation, measurement, and recording of data, not prayer or study of ancient texts.
You also fail to mention that while the rest of you are wringing your hands in the dark, hoping that your invisible magic friend will fix everything for you, there are many, many people working to find ways to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, our dependence on fossil fuels, and our overall energy consumption.
Now, how is it again that you think your opinions on the subject are at all relevant or useful?
We as a nation can’t agree on our faith and even though we are suppose to be good stewards of the land we as a nation, and we of the whole world that God gifted to us tend to treat this great gift as our right to destroy.How would you feel if you invited people to your home and they trashed it — we are all guilty in some way of doing that very thing to our home here on earth. Do something today to show respect for what God has given us and share your Christianity in every small and large way that you can. Reuse what you can, recycle what you can’t. Be informed about what pleases the Lord and try at least once a day to share the message of the Lord.
Mark, what we know about the weather is that we are pretty good at telling you what happened yesterday, but not so good at what will happen tomorrow– or 3 days down the road. Just look at the prediction for the number of hurricanes that would come this year and the strength of them. All we’ve managed to prove is that we have a long way to go before we understand and can accurately forecast these things. When it comes to controlling them, we’re totally powerless– we can’t stop a hurricane or tornado, we can predict where it will go, but even then we’re not sure.
I never said that weather should be determined by prayer or ancient texts. I was musing that, as a Christian that believes in the supernatural and a God that controls all things, that I should realize who is in control of all things. From what I’ve gathered reading and hearing about the Global Warming debate, scientists are divided on the cause, the forecast, and the timetable. It may be too late to do anything about it or it may not. It may be man made, it may not. Some suggest that the only way to truly change it if it’s man-made is to take us back to the stone age that you mock! 🙂
Regardless, the question I’m posing here is not exhaustive about what a Christian should do about Global Warming– recycling, conserving, and being more energy efficient are all great things for multiple reasons (including stewardship like Carol mentioned)– but what should Global Warming, Drought or any natural disaster cause me think about my God.
I’m constantly marveling at a Being that could create the whole world by speaking it into existence, that could form man out of dust, destroy the world with a flood, and yet cares enough for a rebellious sinner that I was to send His Son to die for me. It’s an incredible thought.
I don’t know what “you” should think about “your” God, but as I learn more about the God of the Bible, I find that He does have a limit with what He is willing to forgive and His time table is not the same as man’s. Could the sorrows of this earthly world be our warning, I don’t see why not. They could also be a punishment for those among us who are not willing to give up our earthly and sinful ways and drop to our knees with wonder and gratitude
for the blessings of the Lord and the greatest covenant of all between us — I stand stupfied that God loves us so much as to send His Son to die for my sins and by how little I deserve His glory. Your’re right it is THE most incredible of all thoughts.
You’re right, Carol. He does have limits as far as how long He will continue to overlook sin. Just look at Israel and how even though they were God’s chosen people and He tried multiple times to bring them back to Himself, but eventually he needed to punish them by natural means (Elijah and the drought) and then political means (Babylon, Medes, Persians, etc.)
A society that believes only in the god of science is just as bad as one that believes in Baal.
And the earth was flat and the center of the universe. We’ve come a long way, and I for one and very happy for the scientific and medical advances humanity has made in the last 2000 years. And who says that we can’t do anything about global warming?? There’s plenty all of us can do to curb the emission of carbon dioxide gases. Whether or not we make the effort is the issue. Also, there’s more and more of a consensus amongst scientists now regarding the real existence of global warming. Even the evangelical christians are on board now: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/08/national/08warm.html
But, Min, you may have something here. Since your god controls everything, let’s undertake an experiment:
The experiment will take two years and involve 20 volunteers, 10 believers, 10 non-believers.
The believers will PRAY for two years instead of taking advantage of any sort of modern medicine including antibiotics, pain killers, over the counter drugs, surgery, etc. The 10 non-believers will take full advantage of all that science has to offer.
At the end of the two years, we’ll see who’s in better shape and health.
I’ll volunteer for the non-believer side. Are you in for the believer side??????
I would like to reply to Musicguy.
It is not that “our” God controls everything, it is that “The God” CAN control everything.
There is a very large difference.
Now about that praying thing you seem to ridicule, three years ago I was given a 2% chance of living through treatment for a disease I had — key word — had. Did I pray, you bet I prayed and prayed and prayed. I didn’t pray for God to heal me or to spare me. I prayed to ASK God what He needed me to do for others. Here I am — no sign of the disease in my blood work. Was it the medication,which I need to tell you the doctors kept changing,was it the change in diet,was it the fact that I also got herbs from a naturalpath, could it be a combination?
I myself believe it WAS God, because I was then able to care for my husband who died of liver cancer and my brother who died of brain cancer, AND they both recieved THE LORD GOD before they died. Could that have happened if I had been dead, could I be writing to you to try to inform you in a way that you might not have heard before? Not even with the BEST sicence in the world.
If you are truly a non believer, nothing I or any one else can say or show you will make a difference, but ponder for a few moments the reasons we do not surrender our will and ways to God. Pride,Fear,Rebellion and Foolishness.
Where do you fit into that equation?
Who’s to say that we can’t do anything about global warming? I’ve read multiple articles that ask the very question of whether we can do anything about it– in fact, we have models, but I’m not sure that we know exactly why we’re warming in the first place. There are so many variables that go into global climate that we could spend a lot of time doing one thing, and then have sun spots flare up and have it end up doing nothing.
Which is totally my point when it comes to weather. We’re really great at telling you what happened yesterday, we’re lousy when it comes to telling you what’s going to happen 10 days from now, let alone multiple years.
If you go and cut all emissions and return us to the stone age and the temperature still rises, then what are you going to do?
As for your experiment, it’s a little flawed. You see, the Bible never said not to take advantage of medical technology as you suggest– Paul told Timothy to “use a little wine for the stomach’s sake”.
And this kind of test has been done before– Daniel, Hannaniah, Miseal and Azariah all ate only vegetables and water for a week and yet proved to be more healthy than those that dined on wine and meat.
But hey, what would be also interesting is to note that those that use all sorts of medicine are not guaranteed to be in better health. People die from surgery, antibiotics have produced weaker immune systems, pain killers have masked worse problems, and doctors are taking more over the counter drugs away every day saying they really don’t know what they do.
So, it’d be an interesting experiment to say the least. And I’m sure that you could look to the Amish or Mennonites to see people doing without modern medicine for more than 10 years.
“If you go and cut all emissions and return us to the stone age and the temperature still rises, then what are you going to do?”
We’d cross that bridge when we get to it. Personally, I don’t think that will ever happen as you’ll never get enough people and countries involved, doing the right thing, in order to reduce CO2 emissions.
Wow. a whole week of vegetables. Great longitudinal study there.
I don’t think you’d see it happen either, but it would be terrible to get there and then say “whoops!”
10 days, I’m sorry. It was a long week. And it obviously it was something that wasn’t expected because those that put them to the test expected them not to be as healthy. The point didn’t change though– if God chose to make a point with individuals that just chose prayer over medicine He could.
It would be terrible if we were conserving natural resources, finding alternative fuel sources, and working to clean up a very dirty environment??
I think not. Even if the temperature kept rising (which would be one hell of a long shot), humanity would have done a great deal of good along the way. But I suppose it’s easier to just pray and hope things get better by themselves. Yeah, that makes sense!
I’m sure you must have read this:
If not, well, here it is again.
M, you seem to have a case of the ‘trolls’. I’ve heard that they make a cream for that now.
lol
wow, I’ve never been called a troll before. I feel so honored! thanks jenna! I’ll refrain from using the names for you that I’m thinking right now as I wouldn’t want to spoil this celebratory mood.
Perhaps you can offer a comment of substance to the debate instead of petty name calling??
Musicguy, how can there be substance to a debate within which one side has an utterly insubstantial premise? The existence of the divine and his/her intrusion into the natural order of the universe is utterly unverifiable, and equally unfalsifiable. Thus, the supposed “debate” cannot have substance.
And, of course, the fundamentalist, creationist side of the … erm… discussion cannot and will not acknowledge that science is about the task of understanding the universe and its workings, since that would implicitly deny the hand of the divine in day to day events.
These sorts of discussions are futile. We should just let them continue to pray for rain and ignore reality, because that is what they are going to do regardless of any appeal to intellect or knowledge. ( I know… I was one of them for a lot of years. Then I learned to actually THINK about what I read.)
Deba, I could argue the same thing about the Big Bang or other “scientific” theories regarding the beginning of the world. How much has the “theory” of Evolution changed from Darwin until today? And every time something does come up to challenge Evolution, Evolution is changed to incorporated. To me, as a computer scientist by training, either it’s true or false– if I keep changing the question so that I can get a true, then it’s not the same as the original.
I have no problem with science trying to understand the way God’s universe works. What I have it a problem with scientists pretending that they’re omniscient stating that they know how the universe came about when all they can observe is that which we’ve seen for the past 100 years. Even if they could produce a test that could show one thing changing into another, they would then have the logical hurdle of proving that it happened “in the wild” whereas it took us scientists to invent.
Back to my point– it’s irrational to say that you cannot have a debate over an unprovable event in history between an historic account versus scientific hypothesis. Until, of course, there’s some kind of time machine where you could go back and actually look for yourself (in which case no one would believe it still, since we can’t even get everyone to believe that Islamic fundamentalists crashed airplanes into the twin towers…).
So, take your pick. Believe your scientists who are basically guessing if you want. (I know, oversimplification, but that’s basically the scientific method– make a hypothesis and either prove it true or false.)
Believe your scientists who are basically guessing or believe in a book of fables, pieced together over centuries with not a single original copy remaining in order to check for inaccuracies, translation errors, or any other “accidental” omissions or additions, which has been used over the centuries as a poor excuse to murder, imprison, and/or subjugate countless innocent people.
Yeah, I’ll take the scientists, thank you kindly.
Musicguy, are you my nephew? He has the same dig your heels in attitude. No changing his mind, no-sir-re. Stop going one the defence for just a few moments. The Lord will NOT come to a heart or soul that is not open. Expand your mind, you can not see air, but we know it’s there. I do have to agree that COUNTLESS innocent people and entire races have been murdered, imprisoned, and subjugated in the name of “religion”, to say nothing of the immoral conduct of many so called “church leaders”. I have often wondered why God would “allow” so many terrible things to happen in the world, past and present. This past week in Church, our Pastor addressed this very issue. He said that even though we could not see it or even fathom the way of God, God had a purpose for ALL that happened. The Pastor used the actions of Joseph and his brothers as an example. This really hit home with me and it was a wonderment. I pray for you, and my greatest hope for you is that you could find a Church that would explain some of the answers to you. Think of Church as school. If you find a professor (Pastor) that could explain these things to you, your eyes would fly open with the wonder of it all. Final thought, every day in the Holy Land, archaeological information comes in to support many of the “claims”, “stories” and FACTS of the Bible. Please consider attending Church. You do not have to be a “believer” to become educated, but you should at the very least, know what it is that you dis-believe. Carol
Carol,
I am fully aware of what I dis-believe. I was raised Catholic, attended parochial school for 13 years, and continue to work for the RC church today. I think they’re full of crap, and that will never change. Once I began to think critically for myself, I was removed from the mindless masses, and I’ve been very happy since that day.
Science will always win in my mind. the observable, measureable, and quantifiable can’t be dismissed because of an ancient book of fables. Thankfully, there are churches that embrace differing thoughts including the belief in evolution, acceptance of homosexuality, etc. Two of these is the United Church of Christ and Unitarians. I’ve been in contact with them numerous times, and plan to join a Unitarian church at some point.
As I’ve said before, I do believe in a supreme being of some sort, but not your biblical sky daddy, with his questionable “historic” sources as evidence. That said, I have no plans to ever swallow your breed of christianity. You can pray until the cows come home, but they tend to just bounce off me.
Musicguy, well you’re not my nephew, he won’t consider any Church of any type.
Good for you that you are at least considering going to a Church of whatever type you choose.
I was never asking you to dimiss science, only to consider God also.
I do not know what you think my “breed of Christianity” is, but I want you to know that prayer to Christians is (in my opinion) the same as putting out poistive thoughts into this wonderful world and universe of ours.
“Sky Daddy” is a silly thought,and people can still learn from “fables”. I prefer to think of the Bible as the living word of God, bad translations, misprints and all. It’s all in the way you are taught to understand it, sometimes incorrectly, sometimes half way, sometimes your soul just opens up and you have an “Oprah moment” and you’ve just got to say “I got it!’
As for those cows — watch out, they’ll sneak in when you least expect it.
On a side note, why would you continue to work for an organization that you think is full of crap?
Thank you for your thoughts. Carol
Why do I work for them? Purely selfish reasons: car payment, mortgage, credit card debt, the liquor store bill. They pay me $30K a year, for a part-time position. It’s really a no-brainer.
I love the people for the most part. A few of them even know all about me, and what I feel about the church. I just need to sit through some ridiculous sermons every once in a while, and deal with the pomp and circumstance. All in all, not a bad JOB- that’s all it really is, a job.
You’re most certainly correct- people can learn from fables. The difference being that the fable characters aren’t going to send you to a bad place if you don’t pay homage. To me, it’s like saying Santa Claus is going to give you a lump of coal. Well, I don’t believe in Santa, so I ain’t worried about his lump of coal! Likewise, I don’t believe or fear some invisible Sky Daddy. My supreme being is much bigger than male/female or any ancient text you can dig up. Nor does he care about what I eat, what I wear, or who I love.
I understand the positive thoughts idea. I actually use that phrase quite a bit and believe in some karmic principles (WE and we alone control our destiny here on earth).
“Your breed of Christianity”- this may have been an over simplification. What I meant was those sects of xtians who use a very literal interpretation of the bible, don’t allow critical thought on any subject, think evolution is a myth (global warming for that matter too), earth is 6000 years old, etc, etc. This breed isn’t generally concerned with you being a xtian unless you abide by all their rules,edicts, and interpretations no matter how outdated or assbackwards they may seem. In other words, it’s their way or no way. Know the type??
While I respect your right to disagree, and do not have a problem with your posting, Musicguy, I’m going to have to request that you remain respectful of my beliefs as I will be of yours. That includes referring to my Creator and Savior as “some invisible Sky Daddy”, and mocking the name of my belief by calling it “xtian.”
On my blog, as in my house, I expect a certain level of respect and decorum, and would appreciate it if you would respect these wishes. I will be crafting a comment policy to address this, but from here on in you should expect that these types of things will constitute an edit or removal of said comments.
I didn’t mean to mock by using “xtian”. I use that quite frequently as an abbreviation when I’m typing. As for “Sky Daddy”- that’s my belief.
But since it’s your blog, I’ll allow you to censor all you want. The conservative right is good at that. Since we’re approaching the x-mas season, I’ll be sure to avoid that as well. And jsut to be sure, I’ll not abbreviate lacrosse by typing LAX, just to be on the safe side.
(Will snarky comments still be allowed, or will that also be banned in the new policy??)
I don’t have a problem with Snarky Comments. And feel free to abbreviate Lacrosse or even Los Angeles International Airport LAX. However, “Sky Daddy” is more insulting than anything.
Obviously, I would rather edit than delete any comment. I don’t have a problem with differences of opinion, good debate, etc. But I have found that name calling, etc. serves more to inflame and get personal then to actually talk about substance.