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Throughout the ages the Church has either been directly tied with government or government has tried to eliminate the church. We see this dramatically presented to us with the history of the church after Jesus Christ’s ascension.
Immediately, the local government killed the apostles, persecuted them so that they left Jerusalem, and then used Christians for sport in the early Roman Colosseum. And then the government and religion got along, until both were corrupted and they split their ways.
Christianity was never meant to be an established governmental religion until the King of Kings returns. I know, that sounds funny coming from a guy that talks about America being a Christian nation, but I believe that the founding of our nation based on Christian principles is different than having a pope as the supreme ruler of our nation. Therein lies my difference.
In any case, there is one reason that government (when not wholly “owned” by a religion) wants to eliminate Christians. They are a threat to the government’s power. You see, when a group of people believe in the fact that this life is not the end, that they are ultimately responsible to a Higher Power, and that they serve ultimately someone the government can’t control, then government wants these people out of the way.
You see, because of the axiom “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” we can see in our leaders and government the desire to continue to regulate more things every day in absurd ways just because they can. They can tell us what materials can be in our socks, how good our meat is, and when we can remove a tag from our mattresses. They do this all in the name of protecting the people. However, should you disagree with these powers that be, they will do what they can to make you obey.
So, we’re all fine as long as you don’t cross into sin– but once you do, you have problems. That’s why I can say last week that The Church is Good for Society and this week say that it’s bad. It’s bad because it will not bend on those things that it holds dear– the true church will not embrace homosexuality, abortion, or proclaim other sin is right. It is willing to go to jail and be killed for it (either in the concentration camp or burned at the stake).
When Christianity is persecuted is when it is at its most powerful. It is then that it spreads uncontrollably. No one has ever been successful at oppressing it. No one will be.
Is all government at every level to be secular then? The puritans who went to America to found their colonies did so with a particular eschatological hope – they were forming a new righteous colony – and they enshrined Christian values in their laws, ethics and governments. Were they wrong to do so?
I don’t have any great insights here. When Christianity is too close to government, there are usually excesses that we see as being quite unchristian in character. Even in Calvin’s Geneva, the authorities in Geneva executed Servertus for heresy. (Not squarely Calvin’s doing, but the spiritual authority was very close to the civil authority).
But if you are right, then is there justification for basing our laws on the ethics from the Bible?
UHM… I definitely do not agree that the church is bad for society. Even listing all the things you did. I think that all those things are GOOD…
I am in fact quite surprised to see this here.
Meg
I think that without God’s final government in place, the amount of time that a government can continue to follow Christianity is not very long. I believe that man’s tendency for acquiring as much power as they can get leads to a conflict against Christianity or a perversion of it.
I don’t think government has to be secular, and it must be based on the concept that there is something that is bigger than it in order for it to endure for any length of time.
I believe the we can base our laws on the ethics of the Bible, but that we can’t let our leaders usurp the position of God.
Meg, certainly persecution is good for the “greater plan”– but from the perspective of pure “good for society”– society doesn’t think that a religion that keeps its people from being willing pawns is good.
I guess this is an issue of how we define good and bad, again.
You see, I really could care less what society deems good or bad. Just because they called it bad doesn’t make it so.
I don’t understand your statement “society doesn’t think that a religion that keeps its people from being willing pawns is good.” Could you rephrase that??
Meg
What I’m trying to say is that a Christian’s faith mandates that he follows God rather than man in the case that the two disagree. In order to have power, government wants you to say that everything they say is right and good and that they have the authority to say that.
And all that means is that there is something wrong with society and government, not that the Church is bad for society. LOL…
And for the record they have the authority (given by God) to mandate LOTS of things, and we ARE to obey. In fact, I think the only things we are not to obey on, are the Ten Commandments (if asked to do otherwise). But THAT is a whole other topic.
Meg