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Plan B, the controversial drug that terminates a pregnancy after conception has been green-lighted by the FDA for purchase over-the-counter (behind-the-counter?), but only for those 18 and up.
Feel safe about teens not getting their hands on it and doing something she might regret?
Did you see that I said, for those 18 and up? It’s not just women that can get this drug over the counter… The men that committed statutory rape, date rape, or incest against a girl/woman can purchase these too.
In fact, one can easily envision a great scenario brought to you by our government:
First, the man scopes out the girl at a bar. He sees her, she’s hot. He gets a lustful passion for her and slips her a drink with a pill to knock her out. As soon as she gets tipsy, he offers to help, and away they go to his apartment.
Next, after a time of passion, he puts her some place with a note: “Thanks for the night of fun. Here’s some Plan B, just in case.”
Great stuff– isn’t our culture and technology wonderful sometimes?
MIn, you nailed it this time. This pill is absolutely horrific! Why can’t the government put their money into preventing pregnancy through teaching kids about abstinence instead of teaching them to murder innocent un-born babies! Pregnancy is not some lethal disease that you have to erradicate.
I am infuriated with this decision. This truly gives the rapists, pediphiles etc, the “green light” to victimize their prey and as an afterthought, toss out the pill to make sure the inevitable doesn’t happen.
Awareness is the key.
We’re told that the government is doing a favor by giving women choice– so that they don’t have to have the burden of caring for an “unwanted” child that will “mess up my life.” But what happens is that the women are impacted by the loss of their child for life– and the child never gets a life.
It’s kind of like spanking or using other discipline on a child. We do this in love because we know that the behavior that is being disciplined is one that carries greater consequences as they get older.
Regardless of the fact that I believe it is murder and killing a child (which is the biggest reason not to be using Plan B), it points itself to the problem that a woman is having a bad lifestyle that may (and will) lead to bigger things than just a child.
Abstinence before marriage, faithfulness in marriage.
Interestingly, first a woman is to marry as a virgin. but secondly, when she is married, her body is not her own, so there ought not be a reason for these things!
Mrs. Meg Logan
Unfortunately, we cannot trust people to think Biblically– you’re right, Mrs. Logan, we are not our own!
How big are these pills? Could these theoretically be given to some unsuspecting individual? Now thats scary. I’m wondering what the legal system will rule if a woman is forced to take one (or many) of these and a baby is aborted against her will? If they classify that as murder (which they likely could), it would create a whole new precident for challenging Roe vs. Wade.
That’s an interesting point, DLOGAN. It’s already well known that people have been slipping other drugs that impair a woman’s judgement, such as the date rape drug, into drinks and the like. You wonder what would happen with Plan B.
I think that you’re also right about the likely outcome, considering Laci’s law and the laws that protect the unborn from harm.
It would be scary if a husband/boyfriend decided that he wanted it to be “his choice” wether or not to carry a baby to term… (i suppose no more scary than that it is HER “choice” but…) I recently heard some news that a man was sueing for the legal right to either abort his unborn child, or to not pay child support if he didn’t want the kid but she had it anyway… arguing that if women have this choice men ought to too, in the name of “equality”…. well we can see that sin begets sin…
exactly
It is an interesting legal question, Why is it only the woman’s right to choose? Of course our answer is, it’s not the woman’s or the man’s– it’s God’s right!
I say amen for the pill. Dont tell me what to do or what not to do. If i make amistake I want a way out.
Lizzy,
Hmm, well that was the epitomy of selfish… what can one say to that? NOTHING… if you are a Christian, then your mistakes are forgiven, but you still reap what you sow, and committing another sin because of the first is not justified, it is liscentiousness, a sin in and of itself.
I am guessing that you are implying that people ought to have the pill incase they make the mistake of sleeping with the wrong person at the wrong time(lacking self controla nd following after the lusts of the flesh), and that this justifies abortion or (MURDER).
The only one telling you what to do is GOD. We are simply repeating what He has already told all of humankind. The fact that you are upset by this really implies that you know that what you are doing or have done is wrong. If you did not think it were wrong, then you would simply consider us crazy and foolish and wouldn’t bother speaking with us at all. But the fact that you need to justify yourself implies you understand that you are walking wrongly, and sinning against God.
Repent, and Believe on the Gospel, that God might spare your soul eternal damnation through the gift of His Son Jesus Christ…
Mrs. Meg Logan
Ok…..maybe everyone should research this pill before assuming the worst. This IS NOT an abortion pill, idiots!!! The pill prevents sperm from fertilizing an egg (Assuming you all know what fertilization means). As far as the comment about “How would a woman feel about losing a child?” I will tell you. Speaking from experience; almost dying in a hospital was nothing like taking a preventative birth control pill. And further more, the whole “date rape” scenerio is stupid. If I was raped by someone(and have experienced this as well, but without an option) I would be glad to take this pill the next day. I wouldn’t be able to raise a child the way it should be knowing that some stranger (or even someone I know) forced them into the world without my consent or ability to take care of said child. Please do your research before you bring the bible and stupid “bar” scenes into a forum that you know nothing about. A little help for you poor confused people in the world: visit http://www.go2planb.com for more information. Next, google up the “abortion” pill RU-486 for a little info on that as well. Thank you all for giving me something interesting to talk about this evening. Have a blessed day!!
From the site you recommended (emphasis mine):
As you can see from the highlighted part, if a person believes that a fertilized egg is a baby (i.e. conception has happened), then preventing implantation is abortion, since you denying a living being what it would need to survive.
I find it hard to believe that any woman is taking Plan B regularly since by its vary description it’s something you take after you’ve had a intimate encounter that you think could lead you to having a baby– therefore I question just how effective it is at preventing the release of an egg. It might stop fertilization, but I would wager that the main way is through preventing implantation the same as normal birth control.
I could lecture you on getting your facts straight before posting like you did me, but I’ll refrain at this time. 🙂 I’m glad we gave you something to talk about.
This post is a fountain of ignorance if not outright deception. Plan B cannot, REPEAT, cannot terminate a pregnancy. It prevents implantation of a fertilized egg. End of story.
If you oppose Plan B, you oppose many forms of birth control, which rely on the same mechanism to work – in which case, keep partying like it’s 1664, dudes.
Opposed to Plan B? Then don’t take it. Stop legislating morality.
The post itself is hardly a “fountain of ignorance” or a “deception.” If you wish, you are correct that technically pregnancy does not occur until after implantation, however, you will note that this was specifically spelled out in the post:
You comment about 1664 (which I’m sure is a fountain of knowledge and not deception about how long the pill has been around) aside, the whole point of this post was not what Plan B did, but the opportunity for its misuse.
Go back and read it again– I’ll wait. You’ll see that my whole point is that people that want to take advantage of girls through incest or rape could pick up this pill as a way, the believe, to get around the consequences of their actions.
As for whether life begins at conception, the 50% or so of this country that believes that abortion is killing a human life tend to believe that life begins at conception– although most probably don’t realize the effect that BC has on that same life. It is something that needs to be brought to attention.
Oh, and let me know how I can legislate morality. Last time I checked I was only voicing an opinion, but if I can legislate morality there’s a bunch of things that I’d like to legislate starting with declaring my birthday a national holiday.
I believe I had my facts straight when I posted. I was a bit pissed off and I apologize for that. If you will take the time to read my post again, you will see that I was sharing intimate details about my life to try to help someone see my point of view. In truth, we do not know what is exactly going on in our bodies when we take PlanB. Assuming that it prevents pregnancy by preventing fertilization, then that is almost the same as birth control. Birth control prevents fertilization because there is no egg being released from the ovaries. That being said, I know that I can come across, well, simply put….bitchy. I apologize for that, sincerely. I did not mean to let myself get carried away with name calling….it happens sometimes. But, I was upset with the fact that you were stereo-typing women by saying that the women that take stuff like this have “bad lifestyles”. Please allow me to explain the reason why that comment upset me.
If you read my post, you will see that I got pregnant and was in the hospital because of it. I almost died. Well, I was pregnant in one of my tubes. Because of this, I am now scarred and have about a 65%-70% chance of this happening again. My doctor does not recommend pregnancy for me. I’ve tried birth controls of all sorts and they all disagree with my body. Therefore, my only option at this time is the condom. I realize that there are operations that both men and women can get to prevent pregnancy. But, what others don’t realize is that I cannot afford surgery of any nature. Not to mention, if I marry the man I am with, he can’t afford a visectomy (hope I spelled that right). Life is not easy for everyone. I am left with the condom and it is not always reliable, (thus the need to take planB). Whether I was married or not, (which I know it is not morally acceptable to have sex out of marriage) becoming pregnant in my condition would still be a major life or death issue. As far as people misusing planB, I agree 100% that this is a problem. It is also a problem for things other than just planB. (Tobacco, alcohol, CO2–used for cake decorating–misused by huffing, adult magazines, eic.) All of these things are found in the hands of teenagers, rapist, etc. I believe there should be something done about all of these things, but the companies that make them are not the only ones at fault for the misuse. That being said, I just wanted to let you know that I did read your post and also understood the purpose behind it. But, I didn’t like the fact that you said women using planB might have a bad lifestyle. They could be in my situation. I am not a bad person.
However, I also do not fully agree with abortion. I will adopt a child that a woman doesn’t want before I see it killed. Abortion is not a form of birth control. People make mistakes and if becoming pregnant is a mistake, then one should live with the consequence and be the best parent they can. If I get pregnant, I will die. Death should not be the consequence for me when I get married and want to have sex with my husband. Maybe I will be able to afford other options one day, or there will be better and safer methods for birth control.
Once again, I apologize for letting my temper get the best of me. I hope that I have not offended anyone in anyway. Also, you made a comment about “giving me something to talk about”. As to that, I hope that you didn’t mean that in a hurtful way. I shared a part of my life with complete strangers, though it was not in a very mature way I admit, I only meant to show some form of positive light on what something like PlanB CAN do. I am alive today. I hope that if this drug is actually harmful to a fertilized egg and is more like the abortion pill, that it will be taken of the market. However, this does not prevent the marketing of the abortion pill RU-486. Thank you for giving me the time and the place to express these thoughts, facts, and some opions. Have a blessed day!
Reality: thanks for writing this piece. I don’t know much about the pill in question, and the controversy surrounding it, but you make a good point that issues are not always black and white.
In our country, operations such as vasectomies are available free on the NHS, but I am surprised that they could be much more expensive than emergency contraception, as they are quite simple operations.
I’m sorry for your ignorance. The Plan B Pill does NOT terminate a pregnancy. It has no effect on pregnancies whatsoever actually. The only thing this pill does is prevent an egg from being released.
You’re a radical religious zealot. Do your research before you speak.
I’m sorry, Nicole, I believe you must have missed part of the conversation.
Whereas you’re right (technically) about the first part– that it does not terminate a pregnancy because a pregnancy is defined by being attached to the uterus– you are incorrect in the second part. If you scan back through the comments and check the Plan B link you will see my quote is accurate. Plan B also works by preventing attachment of a fertilized egg. Again, I say that if you believe that a fertilized egg (i.e. after conception) is when life begins, than you are choosing to terminate life.
Obviously you missed that research that I did– and the point of my post. The point of the post was not to argue about what Plan B does or doesn’t do, when life begins or does not begin. The whole point was to discuss a new tool in the arsenal of those who want to take advantage of women. I highly doubt it is a religious position to want people protected from predators who could use Plan B to eliminate the traces of their criminal act.
Arguments made rationally and respectfully are much more viable than those that aren’t. Hat’s off to you, MIn.
Reality, my heart goes out to you, thank you for sharing what you’ve been through. And I’m sure MIn didn’t mean his comment in a hurtful way, he was only referring to what you’d said yourself in your initial post, in thanking him for giving you something to talk about. :O)
Ok, first things first. the article here is incorrect. the plan B emergency contraceptive pill does NOT terminate pregnancy. it only works BEFORE CONCEPTION. if the fertilized egg were to implant itself in the uterus, this pill would do nothing asside from elevating progesterone (which happens naturally during pregnancy anyway). if the body is not already pregnant, it prevents ovulation and triggers menstruation preventing anything from implanting in the uterus in the first place.
ALSO:
for those women who DO happen to be victims of rape or imposed incest and whatnot SHOULD have them because what is the point in having an unwanted child when there are already so many children who go uncared for?
and I think that the decision to make it 18 and up is extraordinarily flawed as well. teens who engage in sex (which is going to happen whether or not you, I, or anybody else wants it to, as god in his infinite wisdom made us this way), need this pill in case of contraceptive failure (which has been proven to happen from time to time).
when all is said and done, the questions most prevalent should be: “Do we want our orphanages and adoption agencies overflowing with uncared for children?” “Do we want people having abortions and ending what may have been a very good life?” or should we embrace this new drug for what it is: an advanced emergency CONTRACEPTIVE (not abortion drug).
Whatever the truth is on this matter, this should not be the most prevalent question. This question is essentially bogus, being argumentum ad misericordiam.
cpgeek, please refer to this previous comment in regards to when Plan B works. The short of it, unless you know more than those that make the drug, it states quite clearly that it works the same way most birth control works in that if it doesn’t prevent conception it may prevent implantation. The only part of the birth process not effected by Plan B is if the baby is already attached.
So, again, I stand corrected, it’s not dealing with a pregnancy (since, by definition, a pregnancy starts with implantation), but it does deal with a baby after conception.
Secondly, the whole point of this article is not a debate on birth control– though I should have one in the future. The point is who has access to get these things and what will they turn around and do with them. Though I will grant you that the comments have strayed into talking about “BC” itself, the article is not a commentary on it.
Thirdly, I know of many two year olds that are poorly taken care of. Should we go about killing them too, because they are probably unwanted as well? Is the test for whether or not a life deserves to live whether we want them? Their age?
Fourthly, your logic is flawed when you say that “teens are going to have sex.” I did not until I was married. But more than that, the most effective control in Africa for AIDS is (guess what) abstinence before marriage, fidelity in marriage. In fact, for great amounts of time (even in this country) abstinence was practiced and polygamists were frowned upon.
Again, with that logic, since people are prone to stealing, why don’t we make it easier for them to, by making sure that all locks can be easily picked. Since some people will be mass murderers, why don’t we provide easy access to their weapons of choice.
People will sin and do wrong things, but that doesn’t mean that we should erase (or kill another life!) the consequences of their actions. There is a responsibility involved in what they are doing.
Lastly, the whole concept of orphanages being overfull is a comical one to me. Look at the replacement stats around the world. Most places in Europe are reproducing below replacement numbers (2 parents only having one child). In this county, we had the baby boomers have fewer children which is one of the reason for the current Social Security crisis. If anything, we as a world are having too few children, not too many.
And then (if this weren’t sad enough), we use technology to help infertile couples get pregnant (killing more babies) where they could be adopting children. There are more than enough people I know waiting on lists to adopt children.
My impression of the article is that it was written to point out who would be allowed to have access to this ‘Plan B’. That it wouldn’t be just girls that had timed their cycle wrong and wanted all bases covered or their boy friends doing the same thing. That it would also allow access to those to excuse their behaviour.
People can debate and split hairs over this and abortion forever. God designed sex for marriage and in that context, there should not be any reasons to need Plan B or abortion. But, because God has given us free volition, we will almost always mess up HIS Divine plans. We are human, not living in a perfect world.
I guess what saddens me the most about this whole thread, (if that’s the correct term), is that people are always ready to ‘attack’ and point fingers, defend themselves. This shows that we are always looking for a ‘way out’ or a way to not take responsibility for our actions. And I know…some are going to say “BUT”…”WHAT IF”…there will always be those kind of scenarios. This is life. But you can always take responsibility and do what’s right.
Ok, so by your rationale it would be better if the rapist slipped a nasty pill into a girl’s drink, then took her back to her apartment and “raped” her. Then the next mornign left her to face the consequences of his actions?
I think the scenario with the rapist leaving the pills is quite a bit better.
let people make their own decisions…noone is forcing you to use plan B!
in addition, the irresponsible use of a product by consumers is not the manufacturer’s or government’s problem.
people can cook meth from household products, so should we make clorox prescription only?
people can break piracy laws with CD burners, so should we make CD burners prescription only?
people can cut themselves with razors, so should we monitor the sale of those too?
get your nose out of other people’s lives. you are the problem behind America’s issues with allowing women to ahve freedom over their own bodies. No-one can be forced to take the pill but if they want to they should certainly be allowed!
A few things, anna.
1. Thanks for sticking to the original illustration for your opening argument. It was getting tiresome to talk about things that are not germane to the post. For the situation I laid out– I would prefer the woman go to the police and catch the rapist. I would not harm the innocent child that woman could have– punish the person guilt of the crime.
2. Irresponsible use of a product is the government’s problem. Check out the number of warning labels, enforced protective gear, MSDS and other hazardous materials, etc. Even if you go so far as to say in this case there are warnings and hazards clearly listed…
3. You have not proven that men above the age of 18 should be able to purchase it. This post is not saying that women should not have access to it (though with a doctor’s or pharmacist’s counsel would help catch the rapist), but it is saying that men’s access to it is questionable at best.
Okay, this is way off topic – but it is a pet hate of mine. CD burners do not help anyone commit murder, theft and other heinious crimes on the high seas. Thus they do not help acts of piracy.
They *can* be used to perpetrate violations of license agreements, and even – on occasion – acts of copyright violation (more easily done in the US where you have the very restrictive DMCA). But calling this piracy is like calling a meeting of southern baptists a papacy.
(Oh and to get back on topic, I note that CD burners and CDs often do have restrictions built in to try and reduce license violations).
You go, Stephen!! 😉
that’s just what you don’t get. having the baby is a punishment in itself. Do you have any idea what a pregnant woman goes through? And she should have to deal with all this b/c one night someone raped her? Don’t even try to tell me you think thats fair or acceptable when there is another option.
And its not like plan B is an abortion! Its the same hormones as regular birth control pills. Of course you can define abortion differently, but in my opinion it is not a pregnancy until a growing fetus is securely implanted in the uterus. I would not consider a blastula a baby.
I did not say anything about men because in my opinion there should not be gender restrictions on the purchase of a product. Men can buy tampons, women can buy condoms, women can buy prostate supplements. Its called fair rights as a consumer.
and as for your comment stephen, i have nothing to say but that our definition of piracy differs. Burning a couple of CDs for friends is piracy. I don’t think its wrong, but tis against the law and is defined to be piracy.
you failed to address my other examples…cooking meth from household products for starters. The government cant prevent people from doing that…but its not realistic for honest consumers to need Clorox prescriptions.
but i suppose its pointless arguing with people who are apparently against pretty much everything. I suppose you would want to ban people from owning greenhouses too because you could grow weed in there.
I know many women (and men) that would disagree that having a baby is a punishment. Having a baby is nurturing a life that was started inside the woman– and I can agree that it may not be under the best of circumstances– but that doesn’t warrant the destruction of innocent life. It’s like saying that it’s ok for us to kill a man’s 2-year-old because that man came and raped a woman. We just don’t do that. We punish the man, not the child.
Plan B works in two ways (as documented above): It stops ovulation and it stops implantation. As I just discussed in another post, if you believe that life begins at conception then you have to believe that one of the ways that Plan B operates is inducing an abortion.
I have an post coming soon in regards to medical expert’s testimony as to when life begins, but suffice it to say that they agree that life begins when the sperm and the egg are joined to form a unique alive human individual.
Neither tampons, condoms or prostate supplements are purchased after the intercourse to prevent life (either from being formed or from implanting). Also, the purchase of none of these things could be used to cover up a crime that has been committed. You could make the argument that condoms could be purchased before a crime, but there is nothing that can be done to stop that. After the crime has been committed, it would be more likely that a woman would receive help if she were to purchase the item rather than a man.
My views on abortion aside, if it’s statistically possible that a man could rape an underaged girl or commit incest, then the fact that said man could buy something for his victim covers the crime rather than having a doctor ask the underage girl what happened. This is the point of this post.
Again, why is this a big issue? Because there’s not only the possibility of the crime, but also the nature of the crime. Unlike drug use (which is a crime, but is not harming one or two innocent victims), allowing rapists access to Plan B based on the logic that there may be a legitimate reason to allow men to buy it is farther than I would want to go.
And there is where we disagree.
It is against the law, but of your law actually *calls* it piracy, then your law is an a**.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy
Record companies want us to think of copying of music as a high crime, so they link it with robbery and pillage on the high seas. And yet it is clearly not. They include film clips and adverts that tell us that if we tape someone else’s music, we are contributing to organised crime and the drug problem. But we are clearly not.
There is an attempt at guilt by association here, and yet if you consider the issue, there is often not even any kind of theft except in some spurious legal doctrine.
Consider if someone takes a copy of an mp3 from someone else to listen to. That taking is a breach of copyright law. The content is not licensed to the person who took it, and thus the copyright owner may say that he has no right to do so.
But if that person would *not* have bought that music (and we must be very sure he would not have done so), then in what way has he deprived the copyright owner of his property? The owner still owns the copyright, and he is not out of pocket. So where is the theft?
Of course, with the ability to buy mp3s at very low cost now, the point may be moot. If someone wants an mp3, they presumably have means to get it themselves. The theft comes then in depriving the copyright owner of their payment.
But we should still bear this principle in mind when we consider license agreements on software with restrictive clauses, or attempts to otherwise skew rights in favour of the companies who have bought the copyright on works. Copyright is only legitimate if it works in the interest of the public (as are patents for that matter).
So what do we have? A crime that is not always morally reprehensible (except inasmuch as disobeying law is reprehensible) being deliberately compared to murder, pillage and robbery on the high seas, drug trafficking and organised crime.
And then the same companies pushing these unhelpful analogies manage to get a law passed in the US that makes it illegal for you to even point to a place that might tell someone how they might circumvent copy protection systems! So much for freedom of speech!
(Hey, I said it was off topic. If you don’t mind min, I will post a version of this on my blog tomorrow, where it will be more on-topic!)
I will tolerate the diversion for now, but get it over to your blog, or write a post here, or you’ll walk the plank. 🙂
I just noticed that my comment got censored! Just to be quit clear, in the UK (and I thought in the US as well), one may refer to a donkey by its traditional English name of an ass. This is from Old English “assa” and ultimately from the Latin “asinus”.
The vulgarism for a part of human anatomy is usually spelt with an “r” (and pronounced that way too) as it is derived from the Old English word for a rump or tail (ærs). The word is considered vulgar primarily because of its Old English derivation (vulgar literally meaning “of the mob”. It was a word of the common man).
In any case, the term “the law is an ass” is suggestive of the law being stubborn and silly in the way that a donkey is likewise stubborn and somewhat ridiculous (when compared with a horse!)
The term can be found in Dickens for instance. Mr Bumble, in the story of Oliver Twist, replies to Brownlow’s assertion that Bumble’s wife acts under his direction, with:
“If the law supposes that,” said Mr. Bumble,… “the law is a ass—a idiot. If that’s the eye of the law, the law is a bachelor; and the worst I wish the law is that his eye may be opened by experience—by experience.”
This, of course, is even more off topic than the post that was censored… but I just wanted to be clear that I was not using a vulgarism.
Look, I’m 14. I made a BIG mistake last night. It was pressed up against the door in the boys bathroom, and it hurt and he was going to pull out but didn’t. I’m 14. I cannot support a baby and as much as this is going to kill me for the rest of my life I need to take this pill. I found this while looking for a way to get it but I have no clue and I’m so scared…